There is one thing I have discovered–that those who do not wish to accept Jesus as the Christ will go as far as to deny even atheist scholars’ claims that He lived from around 4 B.C.E.-29 C.E. in ancient Palestine. One recently claimed that only a branch of scholars influenced by Christian apologetics accept the existence of Jesus. My sense is that someone who is ready to deny the vast majority of scholarship, not only Christian, but also atheist, agnostic, and Jewish scholarship, is unlikely to be persuaded by a blog post. I will summarize the evidence–first apart from the gospels:
Both Tacitus, Suetonius, and Pliny the Younger (in his letter to the Roman emperor Trajan, 112 C.E.) mention Jesus as the founder of Christianity and that he was crucified under Pontius Pilate. These are the sure references to Jesus in extrabiblical literature of the second century. There is a reference, though later edited by Christians, to Jesus in Josephus, a first century Jewish historian.
St. Paul, writing around 54 A.D. in I Corinthians, mentions the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. His letters all presume the existence of the historical Jesus only 25 years after his crucifixion. In addition, the four gospels, which may or may not have been written by the traditional authors–and that does not matter–give detailed descriptions of Jesus’ life–and all were written in the first century A.D. Despite differences in detail (which we also find in descriptions of Socrates, whose existence no one doubts, by Plato, Xenophon, and Aristophanes), which are to be expected in multiple accounts of any person’s life, most historical details fit the situation in Palestine during Jesus’ lifetime. Matthew and Luke made use of Mark and possibly a hypothetical document called Q (for Quelle, the German word for “source’), they also made use of oral tradition dating back to those who knew Jesus. The amount of time from Jesus’ life to the New Testament writings is incredibly short by standards for most religious figures such as Gautama Buddha or Confucius. Jesus’ existence is as well attested as the existence of most of the historical figures studied from the ancient world.
There is a great deal of pseudo-scholarship out there that denies Jesus’ existence, usually by means of assertion rather than argument. Mainstream scholarship of all creeds or lack thereof accepts Jesus existence–if we denied it on the critics’ grounds, we would have to deny the existence of Plato, Julius Caesar, Herod the Great, and other ancient historical people. The similarity of the Jesus story to dying and rising god stories proves nothing about Jesus existence. The critics are inconsistent–they demand absolute, quasi-mathematical proof for Jesus’ existence, but not for other historical figures they accept as having existing.
Why fly in the face of so much evidence? Probably denial of the obvious is an act of the will rather than an act of the intellect. People who want no part of Jesus find it easier to push him out of their world if they accept the view that he never existed. They are not interested in evidence, but in sophistry that may work with many people who are unaware of the evidence. I remember C. S. Lewis’ scene in The Last Battle, when Aslan throws Jewels at the dwarfs who reject him–they claim that the jewels are straw. Some individuals are so hardened that they refuse to listen to any evidence regarding Jesus, even for a position accepted by all serious Biblical scholars in the academy.
Nazarene Commentary Luke 3:1, 2 – Factual Data | Belgian Biblestudents - Belgische Bijbelstudenten
Jan 13, 2014 @ 16:51:42
John Burns
Jan 15, 2014 @ 00:56:16
This is just the sort of “scholarship” we get when the intellect is regarded as the highest phase of the mind. And just the sort of society that has a hunger for really rather trashy sorts of writing. The world currently is awash in bad books of every sort from fiction to non-fiction. Perhaps it is good for all this garbage to get out, and have the sun shine on it. It might make good compost for a wiser era.
However, Western Christianity is partly at fault for exalting the intellect over many centuries. We have just the sort of society we presently have in part, perhaps large part, to Christianity in the West. The Roman Catholic Church’s desire for control and for power and wealth clearly influenced succeeding generations of Europeans. Calvin and his Elect. Etc. A certain attitude that comes with Christianity regarding the non-human world. It might have been otherwise if the Church of East had continued its earlier flourishing, I notice the further East one goes from Europe the more wisdom–at least in the traditional period.
Though it is not easy to put in words I can feel-sense how the current world came out of the previous one. The human lust for power made modern science a winner. And modern science with its technology is presently destroying the planet. Nuclear power plants, GMO;s, vaccines, prescription medicine . . . oh, and fluoridated water to prevent caries while it harms the thyroid among other endocrine glands. There are always just enough aggressive persons such that given the right instruments they will dominate the societies and create disaster. And there is no way to control this. Other humans just become corrupted by the contact.
I suppose the RCC imitated the Roman Empire and now that structure exists all through the world. The leaders condescend to the masses whom they wish to keep in deep darkness. For example, where are our brilliant scientist scholars presently with respect to Fukushima. I have looked in a vain for a well written presentation of what happened, and what the case is currently. What might we expect? Just like after 9/11 when physics departments across the nation forgot Newton and Galileo. The NIST analysis was worse than bad science.
Since God can not die (I think that is self evident), only the human element in Jesus may have and then come back to life–though there are many cases of recovery from brief comas. Here I think the Nestorians are more consistent.
Tim Snow
Jan 15, 2014 @ 16:15:05
People who deny the existence of Jesus are just Morons in denial. NO SERIOUS SCHOLAR…EVEN ATHEISTS deny the existence of the man Jesus. They can deny he was Christ, they can deny He is the Son of God but to deny His Existence….that’s just a foolish, retarded douche bag that wants attention for the sake of attention…”ooh, look at me and the dumb Shit I said…I denied Jesus existed….yeah, whatever….shitwad..
John Burns
Jan 15, 2014 @ 17:55:21
In fairness to at least some scholars there is dirth of hard evidence from the 1st century. Perhaps one would expect more. There is a good deal of scurrilous and degrading remarks in the Talmud about Jesus and his mother; would not a denial of his very existence have been a more potent attack?
Surely the Jews of those early centuries would have known about events in Jerusalem.
gratiaetnatura
Jan 25, 2014 @ 20:41:55
The first century was such a time of foment in Judea in Jerusalem that it would be easy for those not associated with Christ to overlook him as just another troublemaker executed. Of course the first Jewish revolt against Rome was 66-74, with the fall of Jerusalem occurring in 70.
John Burns
Jan 26, 2014 @ 21:53:05
I know you favor what was until a few centuries ago called usury. I have noticed many articles on the topic lately. Here is a scholarly one. My position remains unchanged, namely the practice of charging interest is usury. Moderate interest is therefore usury and an unwise practice.
“The Problem of Usury in Western Culture ” http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/01/26/the-problem-of-usury-in-western-culture-part-i/
Many American are really Calvinists but do not realize it as they do not even know who Calvin was. My own reading of him is that he was a fairly undeveloped and violent man. Not fit to be a religious leader.
John Burns
Jan 31, 2014 @ 02:10:52
The next addition on usury (classical definition). “Sexploitation, Capitalism and Usury (Part II)” http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/01/30/sexploitation-capitalism-and-usury-part-ii/
“What do you think of usury—what do you think of murder?” Cato, Roman Statesman, 234-149 B.C.
Clearly there is more to the subject than we have been led to believe (and for good reason).
John Burns
Jan 31, 2014 @ 02:55:49
The following is from Essays in Persuasion, The Future by John Maynard Keynes: “I see us free, therefore, to return to some of the most sure and certain principles of religion and traditional virtue – that avarice is a vice, that the exaction of usury is a misdemeanour, and the love of money is detestable, that those walk most truly in the paths of virtue and sane wisdom who take least thought for the morrow. We shall once more value ends above means and prefer the good to the useful. We shall honour those who can teach us how to pluck the hour and the day virtuously and well, the delightful people who are capable of taking direct enjoyment in things, the lilies of the field who toil not, neither do they spin.
But beware! The time for all this is not yet. For at least another hundred years we must pretend to ourselves and to every one that fair is foul and foul is fair; for foul is useful and fair is not. Avarice and usury and precaution must be our gods for a little longer still.”
– pp. 371-372, Norton and Co edition, 1963.
Christadelphians
Feb 07, 2014 @ 06:28:07
Lots of Christians do not want to accept the historical figure from Nazareth and do not want to consider him to have been a Jew.
Christians should come to see that Jesus was a man of flesh, blood and bones, who really lived, could be seen by many (though God can not be seen by man and live) and died (God is an eternal Spirit who has no beginning, no end and as such never can die). Those who do not want to accept the humanity of Jesus do not give the full honour this man, who only wanted to do the will of his heavenly Father, deserves.
John Burns
Feb 08, 2014 @ 01:01:20
Jesus was not what is contemporaneously known as a Jew. I believe geneticists have now revealed that about 97% of Jews are not Semitic. And many of those look to the Talmud as their scripture and not the Pentateuch. We might better refer to Jesus as an Israelite. Of course Joseph might have been of a mixed race; and the same for Mary. So the contemporary Jew is one that was grafted on to an ancient religion/ethnicity; this might not have worked so well. I am not sure what religion the Kazars had prior to adopting Judaism or why exactly they chose Judaism over Islam and Christianity. In any case they are quite a different peoples. Jesus provided he was a Semite probably looked a lot like a Palestinian.
Christadelphians
Feb 08, 2014 @ 18:20:01
Miriam (Mary/Maria), the mother of Jeshua (Jesus) belonged to the Essenes which is considered a Jewish ‘sect’. She and Joseph where very devote ‘religious Jews’
I do agree today we do have many non-religious Jews, and even in the families of our brethren some of their Jewish family members may have different ways to celebrate their Jewish believes in different types of synagogues, but that is also the same in the different denominations of Christendom.
Your idea of “too many Jews occupy too many positions of power and have way too much influence in the USA and Europe to be healthy” seems to be very much exaggerated, certainly for Europe. Even in Belgium where there are some strong Jewish community concentrations the Jews do not have to say so much. In France they are pushed in the corner and regularly have to undergo insults, whilst it must not be easy to find a job in a non-Jewish environment. In West Europe (UK, Netherlands, Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Greece) the Jews most likely do have to find jobs in their own community and for France and Belgium some may have something to say in some banks and for Holland and Belgium in the Diamond industry, though there the Hindus are taking much more place and say the last few years.
We never may equalise Zionism with Jewishness. One of the great problems in Israel at the moment is that many in charge of the country or either non-religious or ‘racial Jews’ or to right-wing fanatic fundamentalist religious Jews.
What do you mean with ” I don’t believe the average Jew or Israeli has the same teachings regarding those that despise them as the Christian does”?
You saying Christians “being anti-Jewish” for almost two millennia is also not totally correct. It is not because some Christians may have taken a jealous attitude against Jews or may have said they killed Christ, that most of Christians where against Jews. Many Christians know Jesus was a Jew, so to accuse them of killing a Christian makes no sense, also because it where some who shouted to kill Jesus and to liberate the murderer Barabas, under influence of the Pharisees opposing the rabbi Jesus.
In times the Jews where facing terrible accusations and bullying many Christians took care of them and protected them so that they would not be killed. Lots of Christians never did agree with what the Nazis were doing and took actions against those barbarous people. (Be careful not to think we would say all Germans and those co-operating with the Germans would have been of the same breed or ideas as those with racial preferences.)
There exist anti-Semitic, anti-Christian., anti-Muslim, anti-Hindu, anti-Buddhist and even anti-Atheist people. In Christendom you have also people who do not like the many Christians of Christianity who adhere only One God. The ones who believe in the triune god even accuse the followers of the Jew Jesus Christ not to be Christian. Often they consider any person who doe not want to believe in the Holy Trinity a ‘devilish’ person or people who have to torment in what they call ‘hell’ as a place of torture and damnation in eternity.
Wherever where there are people, you would find different opinions and also division, that is part of the weakness of human race.
Be careful not to generalise. When you say “As for characterizing Jews with avarice and sexual promiscuity, there is some evidence for this based on their activities.” lots of people could point to the Roman Catholic Church of Rome. By the years many of their priests and nuns misused youngsters and even tortured children. The last few years lots of court-cases have been postponed because of the power the Roman Catholic Church has in many countries.
May we also bring to your attention that the so called Christians in the United States are far away from their Christian ancestors who fled Europe just because of the poverty, inequality, religious differences and looking for new pastures where there would be more liberty. Today (in the USA) lots of conservative fundamentalist Christians do as if they are following the Founders of America, but they are just clashing their dreams to pieces.
Lots of Americans also do have a total different view of Christianity and are mostly seeing one site of Christendom (mostly not aware of other groups than just a few trinitarian denominations).
John Burns
Feb 08, 2014 @ 18:44:19
I was not clear enough. Anti-Judaism is simply taking the position that Christianity was the next step and those that remained outside were denying Christ. It was not a license to persecute Jews. The Popes often protected them. One of my points was that the Jews at the time of Jesus were not Talmudic Jews as most are now. You might want to look into the Talmud and discover how Anti-Christian it is. I know through direct personal experience through a Jewish friend that Jews in America are raised to believe that it is fine to lie to the goyim or gentile. To swindle or cheat them is okay also. Consider Sigmund Freud. Psychoanalysis certainly opened the door to sexual promiscuity. As far as I can discern the Jews are tremendously over represented in high positions in banking. Check out the Rothchilds. I am quite aware of the dangers of generalization but we are talking in terms of large numbers. We have no choice. And I know there are exceptions. But the general trend represented by Jews in the 20th century was clearly anti Christian culture. Jews and atheists have dominated in many areas, not just science. I am not aware of Jews having any trouble finding work or obtaining money, Do have some statistics to that effect? I think Americans have been tricked by things like PC into docilely accepting the total transformation of their society. Is it just an accident that so many Jews are present in high positions in recent administrations? I think you would be amazed if you looked more deeply into this subject just how powerful the Jewish Zionist influence is now. And what about Zionist Christians who apparently have no sympathy for the Palestinians. Why are we giving Israel so much support; Israel that is at a minimum its image of the Nazis!? I am sure you know that the Jews dominate Hollywood and have for many decades. But enough for now.
John Burns
Feb 08, 2014 @ 19:33:55
It would not surprise me at all if Mary were part Egyptian. They escaped to Egypt, and generally people go to where they can fit in and have relatives. Of course we will never know for sure. And it does not even matter. But Jesus may have been part Egyptian. If Mary knew the language that would make it easy for them. And Joseph could build things with a minimum of communication.
Christianity without the Trinity | Stepping Toes
Feb 07, 2014 @ 10:42:25
gratiaetnatura
Feb 08, 2014 @ 03:20:18
Some Jewish people look Middle Eastern–the Jews were never a “race;” they arose from a mixture of Canaanite refugees and perhaps other Semites from Egypt. Jesus would have darker skin, true, like contemporary Palestinians. There is a debate among Jews as to whether belief in God is a necessary condition for Jewishness–Rabbi Jacob Neusner says yes, while Reformed and “Conservative” Jews usually say no. Reformed Jews interpret their Jewishness in an ethnic sense. The Talmud is simply the Judaism descended from the Pharisees of the first century and promulgated by the rabbis after the end of both Jewish revolts (in 74 and 132). The Mishnah is the earliest portion of the Talmud. I don’t care about the racial makeup of contemporary Jews–they have a continual historical tradition. I do not like Reformed Judaism since it is the Jewish version of liberal Protestantism, but I have nothing against contemporary Jews. Charges of avarice and sexual promiscuity are absurd–avarice is universal, and more Christians were charging interest, even in the medieval period, than Jews. While I am not a fan of Zionism, there is no special good or evil about contemporary Jews that they do not share with all fallen human beings.
John Burns
Feb 08, 2014 @ 05:25:57
“I don’t care about the racial makeup of contemporary Jews–they have a continual historical tradition.” [Strictly speaking this is true only of the Sephardic Jews who are a tiny minority] I wonder? When people of a very different history and background adopt a “religion”, do they transform it in subtle and not so subtle ways? As for characterizing Jews with avarice and sexual promiscuity, there is some evidence for this based on their activities . [You probably have not had the extensive contact with Jews that I have had.] For example they certainly predominate in the pornography business area. And also in banking. Both Bernanke and Yellon for example. No one would claim that the talents displayed by Germans are equally shared by the Portuguese. Or that the Japanese strongly resemble the peoples of Algeria. Likewise, the vices of the Germans are largely unshared by the Polynesians. Or those of the Portugese by the Swedes. Environments & history engender different developments of both a positive and negative qualities. In Nebraska German farmers had a well deserved reputation for producing fine farms. And promoting education. Consider the Jewish environment where survival depended on wits and money. As we all know or should know nothing is so apt to lower a man’s mental acuity as sexual arousal. Thus one can be easily taken advantage by sexual advances, pornography, etc. Again there is quite a gap between the Irish mentality and the English. I know it is PC to avoid any suggestion of being anti-Jewish though Catholics have been for almost two millennia. The threat of being called anti-Semitic (a ridiculous, inaccurate term) is no doubt especially scary for those in a public position. But, hey, you can be anti-Christian. And according to a Pew report Christians are the most persecuted religionists on the planet now. No, I have to differ strongly with you here as I have found most though not all Jews to be lacking in some good traits of Christians and to have a very weak moral/ethical attitude which by the way I also find with many atheists. It matters whether people believe in an after life or in reincarnation. If this is the only life, and if there really is the possibility of acting in complete privacy without consequences then, well as you can guess, people may do evil deeds. Whether the Jews have really been treated worse than other peoples through no fault of their own, something I doubt (along with Spinoza who was probably Serphardic), is a good question; but believing they have been so victimized can serve as an excuse for revenge. I guess the Palestinians are paying for some of those crimes real and imagined. I don’t believe the average Jew or Israeli has the same teachings regarding those that despise them as the Christian does. Actually Christians are to be grateful to God for their sufferings. I am sure this operates as a brake however weakly on most Christians. I like to be fair minded and free of prejudice also, but that does not stop me from being observant . . . too many Jews occupy too many positions of power and have way too much influence in the USA and Europe to be healthy. This is a well known and well documented fact. Even many Jews are willing to admit this and some oppose it–those who are anti-Zionist at least.
John Burns
Feb 08, 2014 @ 19:46:18
I believe most people think of Jews in terms of the New Testament. I think this is a big mistake. The Jews that most resemble your idea of Jews are probably these–“Karaite Judaism (in Hebrew Kara’im – קראים – “readers”) started in the 9th Century when Anan Ben David and his followers rejected the oral law. Modern Karaites accept only the Tanakh as divinely inspired, not recognizing the authority of the Talmud and the Midrashim.” If you take into account the fact that the Talmud makes the claim that Jews are a superior race and that the only purpose of the Gentiles is to serve them then you get a very different picture. I know from direct contact with Jews in America that they do take these Talmudic ideas seriously! The Talmud makes sense out of Israel. If like many of us you consider Its behavior unethical, then by keeping in mind that they regard non-Jews as more like animals Israel no longer seems to be acting irrationally. For even a once Christian nation America’s tolerance of the situations in Israel like Cast Lead are hard to follow. Why is Israel always given a pass on atrocious behavior? Why is the Holocaust treated as the main event in 20th century history and anti-Semite as the worst of condemnations? After all more Ukrainians died in the early ’30’s at the hand of Stalin. Don’t they matter? I would suggest a lot of propaganda. And a lot of lies.